Thread History
[DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992 Jim Griffin drgwlpd@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2018-02-11 00:00:06
Re: [DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992 David Standen standen.david@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2018-02-11 00:40:01
Re: [DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992 David Standen standen.david@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2018-02-11 00:40:01
Re: [DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992 Mark Demaline bngn1@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2018-02-11 01:27:07
Re: [DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992 Jim Griffin drgwlpd@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2018-02-12 01:23:21
Re: [DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992 Galen Coupe glcmtz@msn.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2018-02-12 14:46:04
Re: [DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992 Jim Griffin drgwlpd@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2018-02-12 14:55:05
Re: [DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992 Mark Demaline bngn1@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2018-02-12 15:46:15
Re: [DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992 Jim Griffin drgwlpd@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2018-02-22 15:16:29
RE: [DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992 'Jay Barnaby' drgw5393@att.n... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...) 2018-02-22 11:24:04
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Message
From: David Standen standen.david@yahoo.c... [DRGW] (DRGW@yahoogroups.c...)
Date: 2018-02-11 00:40:01
Subject: Re: [DRGW] Traffic over the Moffat, 1989-1992

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Thanks Jim for a fastinating glimpse back interesting years.and for the Co=
nsist's & Combinations that was the "Norm" then.What Wonderful insight, tha=
t this gentleman had then , to capture everyday happeningsof our favourite =
Railroad. ---- we are all thankfull for that.I see that Walthers are re-run=
ning those "Frontrunner 2 axle spine cars ,that were often seen on the Rail=
Blazer.Dave Standen ,Melbourne, Australia

On =E2=80=8ESunday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8E11=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EFebruary=E2=
=80=8E =E2=80=8E2018=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E11=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E00=E2=80=8E:=E2=
=80=8E58=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EAM=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EAEDT, Jim Griffin drgwlpd@y=
ahoo.com [DRGW] <DRGW@yahoogroups.c...> wrote:=20=20
=20
=C2=A0=20=20=20

Caveat: I know that to some purists, the DRGW ceased to exist in 1988.=C2=
=A0 I don't want to have that argument at this time.
OK: So a few years ago I acquired a DVD from a gentleman who videoed hundre=
ds of trains rolling through Arvada.=C2=A0 Few of them are date-stamped but=
I am pretty certain that the date boundaries are Jan 1989 thru June 1992.=
=C2=A0 The videographer captured complete train roll-bys in nearly every in=
stance, which gives you excellent coverage of the kinds of traffic being mo=
ved.=C2=A0 Here are a few of my observations and conclusions.
1) Up into mid- 1992 the vast preponderance of motive power remained D&RGW =
units.=C2=A0 There is a smattering of SP/SSW that creeps in right at the en=
d of the period.=C2=A0 Frankly, there is far more BN power visible (on Cole=
to Creek trains) than SP system.=C2=A0 Interestingly, there are a few SP ba=
y-window cabooses on the ends of trains that have all-Grande power up front=
..
Yes, it's possible that the videographer was selective in what he put on th=
e DVD, but there were still a LOT of all-Grande trains.=C2=A0 Personal obse=
rvation during that period jibes with this.
2) Intermodal traffic:=C2=A0- Hearken back to our recent discussions when I=
was asking about COFC traffic.=C2=A0 Well, it turns out that there are qui=
te a few containers on flats in these trains.=C2=A0 Far more trailers, of c=
ourse, but in many westbound trains there are a few flats with 40' Sea-Land=
containers.=C2=A0 A few other shippers show up, notably NYK, and a few 20'=
boxes as well (tex and others).=C2=A0- Spine cars: In all these hundreds o=
f trains, there was not a single articulated spine car.=C2=A0 I did see thr=
ee or four that had a few single-unit Front Runners, but that was it.- Rail=
blazer observations: Nearly all cars are 89' flats; just a FEW of the 50-fo=
oters.=C2=A0 One train included a single Front Runner car.=C2=A0 Looks to m=
e that if you are wanting to model the Railblazer during this period, you'd=
be just fine using 89' cars.=C2=A0 Oh, and I did see one Railblazer that h=
ad a 20' container riding on a flat, all by itself.
3) Coleto Creek coal trains: pretty common.=C2=A0 There would usually be a =
block of BN units bracketed by home road locomotives on the head end (westb=
ound); they could be cut up any old way coming back down the mountain.=C2=
=A0 Even saw one train with 5 BN units on the point, two DRGW swing helpers=
further back.=C2=A0 The cars were a mix of those CCTX gons that everybody =
wants somebody to manufacture, and PSCX Thralls.
4) Ski Train: It's actually possible to track the evolution of motive power=
practices on the Ansco train; various books augmented by the dozens of vid=
eo rollbys paint this picture:- First season (1989) and second season (1989=
-90), two or three DRGW geeps.- Third season (1990-91), start seeing pairs =
of tunnel motors or sometimes an SD50.- Fourth season (1991-92), begins muc=
h like third season, with a couple SP-system interlopers, but by the end th=
ere's SP GP60 No. 9738 on the point of nearly every run (leading a DRGW tun=
nel motor (5386).=C2=A0 Special runs during the summer seemed to have a pai=
r of SSW GP60s.
5) Ski Train again: the Tempo cars were pretty consistent, but the private =
cars could be nearly any combination of COLORADO, KANSAS, UTAH, or CALIFORN=
IA (just not the two obs cars together).=C2=A0 There was even one 1989 run =
that had UTAH, CALIFORNIA, some other dome that I couldn't identify, and CO=
LORADO-- for 4 private cars.=C2=A0 Many runs however had only two cars, or =
even just one.=C2=A0 Often the UTAH and CALIFORNIA were it.
6) Freights: westbound, generally a block of manifest traffic followed by a=
mix of trailers (or COFC) and autoracks.=C2=A0 Eastbound, basically a mix =
of any kind of freight car, not as much intermodal traffic.
There was one wesatbound unit grain train of UP-system covered hoppers, ver=
y very long and heavy.=C2=A0 It had three tunnel motors shoving on the rear=
..
One fun little train had a tunnel motor and an SP SD45 unit for power, and =
a total of 13 cars (including 5 piggybacks).=C2=A0 Seemed a lot like a shor=
t/fast train!=C2=A0 Definitely not the norm, though.=C2=A0 But I recall see=
ing pretty long DRGW Freights in 1986, so we can't blame *all* of this on t=
he SP operating philosophy, not just yet...
7) Speaking of autoracks-- I would estimate that 50% were still the open-to=
p variety.=C2=A0 I guess I need to pick up some more of those from Accurail=
!=C2=A0 All had side panels at least, though.=C2=A0 No completely open rack=
s by this time.
8) Amtrak: this was the era of the combined CZ / Desert Wind / Pioneer.=C2=
=A0 Count on 10 double-deckers, with usually two express boxes and one bagg=
age up front, but occasionally two baggages.=C2=A0 I say double-deckers rat=
her than Superliners, because: of course the first car behind the baggages =
would be an ex-El Capitan transition coach.=C2=A0 And in at least one run t=
he Lounge Cafe (phase III parlance) was replaced by an El Cap lounge.=C2=A0=
I also personally videoed one in 1994, so it seems that these cars were no=
t unknown.=C2=A0 Pretty sure you won't find one nowadays anyplace besides o=
n the west coast runs.
Power would be two or three F40PH's, but surprisingly often you would see a=
n Grande GP40 on the point.
---Of course there are other oddballs and exceptions, such as the pair of A=
TSF F45u's that were in the consist of one coal train.=C2=A0 Saw one oddbal=
l lease loco that I couldn't identify; one Amtrak B32.
So, them's my thoughts.=C2=A0 I had misplaced this DVD for a couple years, =
and watching it carefully answered a lot of questions that I've had pile up=
recently.
Data, data, data!=C2=A0 It really does help.
https://actionroad.wordpress.com/2018/01/25/the-preeminence-of-data/

-Jim Griffin #yiv2267226747 #yiv2267226747 -- #yiv2267226747ygrp-mkp {bord=
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<div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font=
-size:13px;"><div></div>
<div>Thanks Jim for a fastinating glimpse back interesting year=
s.</div><div>and for the Consist's &amp; Combinations that was the "Norm" t=
hen.</div><div>What Wonderful insight, that this gentleman had then , to ca=
pture everyday happenings</div><div>of our favourite Railroad. ---- we are =
all thankfull for that.</div><div>I see that Walthers are re-running those =
"Frontrunner 2 axle spine cars ,</div><div>that were often seen on the Rail=
Blazer.</div><div>Dave Standen ,Melbourne, Australia<br></div><div><br></di=
v>
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" id=3D"yahoo_quoted_8695601536">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Aria=
l, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div>
On =E2=80=8ESunday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8E11=E2=80=8E =
=E2=80=8EFebruary=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E2018=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E11=E2=80=8E:=E2=
=80=8E00=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E58=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EAM=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EAEDT, =
Jim Griffin drgwlpd@yahoo.c... [DRGW] &lt;DRGW@yahoogroups.c...&gt; wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747"><div>
<span style=3D"display:none;">&nbsp;</span>


<div id=3D"yiv2267226747ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;">
<div id=3D"yiv2267226747ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index:1;">


<div id=3D"yiv2267226747ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<p></p><div style=3D"color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Hel=
vetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><=
div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2737">Caveat: I know=
that to some purists, the DRGW ceased to exist in 1988.&nbsp; I don't want=
to have that argument at this time.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_=
0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2944"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226=
747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2945">OK: So a few years ago I acquired =
a DVD from a gentleman who videoed hundreds of trains rolling through Arvad=
a.&nbsp; Few of them are date-stamped but I am pretty certain that the date=
boundaries are Jan 1989 thru June 1992.&nbsp; The videographer captured co=
mplete train roll-bys in nearly every instance, which gives you excellent c=
overage of the kinds of traffic being moved.&nbsp; Here are a few of my obs=
ervations and conclusions.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1=
518303609978_3470"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_1=
6_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_3433">1) Up into mid- 1992 the vast preponderance =
of motive power remained D&amp;RGW units.&nbsp; There is a smattering of SP=
/SSW that creeps in right at the end of the period.&nbsp; Frankly, there is=
far more BN power visible (on Coleto Creek trains) than SP system.&nbsp; I=
nterestingly, there are a few SP bay-window cabooses on the ends of trains =
that have all-Grande power up front.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_=
0_ym19_1_1518303609978_3433"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226=
747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_3433">Yes, it's possible that the videog=
rapher was selective in what he put on the DVD, but there were still a LOT =
of all-Grande trains.&nbsp; Personal observation during that period jibes w=
ith this.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_3432=
"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_151830=
3609978_3668" dir=3D"ltr">2) Intermodal traffic:&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"yiv2=
267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2946" dir=3D"ltr">- Hearken back t=
o our recent discussions when I was asking about COFC traffic.&nbsp; Well, =
it turns out that there are quite a few containers on flats in these trains=
..&nbsp; Far more trailers, of course, but in many westbound trains there ar=
e a few flats with 40' Sea-Land containers.&nbsp; A few other shippers show=
up, notably NYK, and a few 20' boxes as well (tex and others).&nbsp;</div>=
<div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2947" dir=3D"ltr">-=
Spine cars: In all these hundreds of trains, there was not a single articu=
lated spine car.&nbsp; I did see three or four that had a few single-unit F=
ront Runners, but that was it.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19=
_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr">- <i>Railblazer </i>observations: Nearly=
all cars are 89' flats; just a FEW of the 50-footers.&nbsp; One train incl=
uded a single Front Runner car.&nbsp; Looks to me that if you are wanting t=
o model the <i id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_3018">Rai=
lblazer </i>during this period, you'd be just fine using 89' cars.&nbsp; Oh=
, and I did see one <i>Railblazer </i>that had a 20' container riding on a =
flat, all by itself.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303=
609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747y=
ui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr">3) Coleto Creek coal train=
s: pretty common.&nbsp; There would usually be a block of BN units brackete=
d by home road locomotives on the head end (westbound); they could be cut u=
p any old way coming back down the mountain.&nbsp; Even saw one train with =
5 BN units on the point, two DRGW swing helpers further back.&nbsp; The car=
s were a mix of those CCTX gons that everybody wants somebody to manufactur=
e, and PSCX Thralls.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303=
609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747y=
ui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr">4) Ski Train: It's actuall=
y possible to track the evolution of motive power practices on the Ansco tr=
ain; various books augmented by the dozens of video rollbys paint this pict=
ure:</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=
=3D"ltr">- First season (1989) and second season (1989-90), two or three DR=
GW geeps.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948=
" dir=3D"ltr">- Third season (1990-91), start seeing pairs of tunnel motors=
or sometimes an SD50.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_15183=
03609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr">- Fourth season (1991-92), begins much like thir=
d season, with a couple SP-system interlopers, but by the end there's SP GP=
60 No. 9738 on the point of nearly every run (leading a DRGW tunnel motor (=
5386).&nbsp; Special runs during the summer seemed to have a pair of SSW GP=
60s.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=
=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1=
_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr">5) Ski Train again: the Tempo cars were pr=
etty consistent, but the private cars could be nearly any combination of CO=
LORADO, KANSAS, UTAH, or CALIFORNIA (just not the two obs cars together).&n=
bsp; There was even one 1989 run that had UTAH, CALIFORNIA, some other dome=
that I couldn't identify, and COLORADO-- for 4 private cars.&nbsp; Many ru=
ns however had only two cars, or even just one.&nbsp; Often the UTAH and CA=
LIFORNIA were it.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609=
978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_=
3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr">6) Freights: westbound, gener=
ally a block of manifest traffic followed by a mix of trailers (or COFC) an=
d autoracks.&nbsp; Eastbound, basically a mix of any kind of freight car, n=
ot as much intermodal traffic.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19=
_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2=
267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr">There was one we=
satbound unit grain train of UP-system covered hoppers, very very long and =
heavy.&nbsp; It had three tunnel motors shoving on the rear.</div><div id=
=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br clea=
r=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_29=
48" dir=3D"ltr">One fun little train had a tunnel motor and an SP SD45 unit=
for power, and a total of 13 cars (including 5 piggybacks).&nbsp; Seemed a=
lot like a short/fast train!&nbsp; Definitely not the norm, though.&nbsp; =
But I recall seeing pretty long DRGW Freights in 1986, so we can't blame *a=
ll* of this on the SP operating philosophy, not just yet...</div><div id=3D=
"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_294=
8" dir=3D"ltr">7) Speaking of autoracks-- I would estimate that 50% were st=
ill the open-top variety.&nbsp; I guess I need to pick up some more of thos=
e from Accurail!&nbsp; All had side panels at least, though.&nbsp; No compl=
etely open racks by this time.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19=
_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2=
267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr">8) Amtrak: this =
was the era of the combined CZ / Desert Wind / Pioneer.&nbsp; Count on 10 d=
ouble-deckers, with usually two express boxes and one baggage up front, but=
occasionally two baggages.&nbsp; I say double-deckers rather than Superlin=
ers, because: of course the first car behind the baggages would be an ex-El=
Capitan transition coach.&nbsp; And in at least one run the Lounge Cafe (p=
hase III parlance) was replaced by an El Cap lounge.&nbsp; I also personall=
y videoed one in 1994, so it seems that these cars were not unknown.&nbsp; =
Pretty sure you won't find one nowadays anyplace besides on the west coast =
runs.<br clear=3D"none">Power would be two or three F40PH's, but surprising=
ly often you would see an Grande GP40 on the point.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267=
226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">=
</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"=
ltr">---</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948"=
dir=3D"ltr">Of course there are other oddballs and exceptions, such as the=
pair of ATSF F45u's that were in the consist of one coal train.&nbsp; Saw =
one oddball lease loco that I couldn't identify; one Amtrak B32.</div><div =
id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br cl=
ear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_=
2948" dir=3D"ltr">So, them's my thoughts.&nbsp; I had misplaced this DVD fo=
r a couple years, and watching it carefully answered a lot of questions tha=
t I've had pile up recently.</div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1=
_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv226=
7226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><b>Data, data, dat=
a!</b>&nbsp; It really does help.<br clear=3D"none"><a id=3D"yiv2267226747y=
ui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_4044" href=3D"https://actionroad.wordpress.c=
om/2018/01/25/the-preeminence-of-data/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" =
shape=3D"rect">https://actionroad.wordpress.com/2018/01/25/the-preeminence-=
of-data/</a><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym1=
9_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv=
2267226747yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1518303609978_2948" dir=3D"ltr">-Jim Griffin</d=
iv></div>

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